Today I sit with my friend Chris Bloxham and using the recent Elder Holland retraction as a springboard to discuss just how much of Mormonism’s faith promoting narrative is untrue and deeply built on myth and fable. We tackle stories like the Brigham Young transfiguration, Lorenzo Snow seeing Jesus in the Temple, Seagulls and Crickets, the Sweetwater crossing, elevators in the Salt Lake Temple, Moroni blessing Manti, John Taylor’s bullet stopping watch, and several more. Once you see Elder Hollands story in the context of all the other just how many faith promoting stories we have in Mormonism and how the far and wide majority of them are problematic or downright untrue then you can begin to connect dots. Dots such as how miracle stories get started, why they take hold, and why there will be so many less “so-called” miracles going forward in a age of verifiable history. In the end is uncomfortable truth more valued by you then comfortable myths held as true that are not?
What stories are demonstrably problematic that we left out?
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Another great podcast. Quick detail question for Chris. I recently read the Hatch article on the Lorenzo Snow Salt Lake Temple Vision. It seems like Ali Young Pond (1873-1943) was still alive when the LeRoi C. Snow story was published in 1933. However, she never said anything about it one way or the other. The First Presidency tried to track this down later and wrote to her widower husband and he seemed to confirm the story, but seemed heavily influenced by what LeRoi Snow wrote. Where did you read that she had died when it was published. You also mentioned that some fundamentalists believe that Lorenzo Snow was not allowed to have the vision in the Holy of Holies because he had given up polygamy. There is a YouTube video where Ogden Kraut’s son tells about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rr3s40NxP8. Looking at the details, this assertion is highly problematic. If Allie Young Pond died in 1943 and Ogden Kraut was born in 1927, he would have been really good friends and hung out with Allie Young Pond when he was 10-14 years old and she was an old woman. He would have known all kinds of things about Church History and she would have confided things to him she never told anyone else during the last years of her life.
Great podcast, I really enjoyed listing to it. Thank you for the entertaining content.
Interesting stuff indeed, but Bill, in all respect, you still say “Bring ham “Young! Has no one pointed this out to you? I shutter to think it’s purposeful.
I don’t get it. Stories do get embellished. Yes. But if there are no miracles, then (according to not just LDS scripture but the Bible too) there is no God, no need for faith. If in this life we have hope only, then we are of all men most miserable.
I believe proxy endowments weren’t performed until the St. George temple. Therefore, how could the founding fathers have all their temple ordinances performed before Woodruff’s vision? Yes, sealings and baptisms were done by proxy before St. George temple was built and were done in behalf of the founding fathers as was mentioned. Perhaps the request was to have their endowments done what was needed and intended? Joseph taught in Navoou that it was desirable to have the temple ordinances done in a correct order. However, during the Utah period that was not going to occur until a temple was built.
Btw. Proxy ordinations weren’t performed for the first time until Jan 11, 1877 as was the endowments.
To be more specific with all the details of the situation with the temple work on the founding fathers I will refer you to Jennifer Ann Mackley’s book “Wilford Woodruff’s Witness: The Developlment of Temple Doctrine”. Pages 185-194. This clearly shows the correct picture that Bill and his guest apparently overlooked on their assumption that somehow the Wilford Woodruff vision is somehow faulty and not to be trusted.
This was an excellent dissection of myths I enjoyed until the story about the Japanese fighter pilot. Cartoony imitations of Japanese people are racist. Period. Both hosts indulging in such prejudiced, infantile behavior is beyond inappropriate.