295: Revelation and The Role of Prophets & Apostles, Modern and Ancient

Are Modern Prophets the same as Ancient Prophets and Ancient Apostles?  Today we dissect three audio quotes of Elder Oaks where he seems to acknowledge and validate that they are not.  That while Ancient Apostles and prophets were witnesses of a manifestation of some sort in regards to their witness of Christ while Modern Prophets have essentially zero direct contact with the Savior.  Are Modern leaders just like Moses, Noah, and Abraham?  Apparently not.  What are we to make of this?  And what does it mean to you for them to be special witnesses of Christ?


11 thoughts on “295: Revelation and The Role of Prophets & Apostles, Modern and Ancient

  1. The first audio from Oaks was PAINFULLY LONG and obtuse. He rambled. It was elusive as well.

    When OAKS said (as you pointed out) that none of the Q15 had any of these Alma type experiences–that was interesting.

    About the second quote? If an apostle is the special witness of the “Name of Christ”, this is rediculous! The Methodist Minister down the road is a witness of the “Name of Christ”!

    Nice cast Bill. You made your point, and I think it was clear how you introduced and discussed it.

  2. Can I access these quotes by Elder Oaks via public links? Do you know when or where they were given?

    I would love to have them for quick access for conversations or even when I teach at church. Thx!

  3. The scriptures are a limited record extraordinary occurrences and miracles. We really do not know, if on a day to day basis, whether or not ancient prophets experienced spectacular events at a higher frequency.

    • That’s true but I also think such a view is making excuses. Ancient prophets claimed to speak to God directly and more importantly that God spoke back clearly. Ancient prophets also seemed to have access to God magic in a way that others could perceive they were something more. Outside of being LDS and wanting to believe, Modern leaders seem to give zero evidence that they are in direct communication with God. For example do you truly believe that Elder Nelson could call on God to strike a critic mute? dumb? 3 day slumber? I for one do not. Do modern prophets give us truth in a fashion that shows them to be a better indicator of right and wrong than the world? Who was more right in their movement first and who was more reactive and lagged behind on the following
      birth control?
      gender equality?
      race equality?
      understands its history accurately?
      treatment of those who are LGBT?
      understanding the normalcy of masturbation?
      understanding the reality and causes of homosexuality?
      being aware of its own unhealthiness?
      in the end Mormonism is very much reactive to the world and lacks the foresight to maintain any step ahead on the world, but instead always seems to concede ground after the world is already there and imploring a shift by the Church is necessary.

      Lastly what wisdom do you hear coming out of the modern Church. What things are LDS leaders saying and teaching that is living and is vibrant and moves your soul in a way that what is said feels alive, new, and containing wisdom?

  4. Bill,
    Can you share the source of the Richard Rohr quote? It was priceless.

  5. I find a comment that Elder Bednar made in a recent January 2018 Stake Conference in Texas (the one that Mormon Leaks released) very telling. He opened his remarks by saying something like, “You’re all familiar with the story of the Wizard of Oz. When they arrived in Oz, they discovered it was just a small guy behind a curtain…..I don’t want to be silly but today I’d like to give you some insight into the life of current apostles and prophets and pull back the curtain of Oz. ». 😱.

    Did he just miss the irony of that statement??? What he actually compared current leaders to was men who people BELIEVE are powerfully connected to God but in truth are small powerless men with no special power. I had to laugh out loud! Was it a Freudian slip? I think he unintentionally revealed a very important truth.

  6. Hi Bill, Thank you for sharing this. A lot to think about here. Do you have a source for when/where Elder Oaks spoke about this? Thanks!

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