In the LDS Church, we have the Priesthood of God. One of the magnificent things that comes with that Priesthood is the power and authority to call upon God through the laying on of hands in blessing the sick and afflicted to be healed. Healing power is one of the evidences in the LDS Church’s truth claims. And As RFM points out, it appears to be a gift no longer present in the Church. He takes the last General Conference as a prime example and shows that in the 11 cases in conference where surely a Priesthood blessing did or should of taken place, the afflicted individual does not fare to well even with access to God’s Priesthood army. If the game were baseball – People dying would in an offensive onslaught while throwing a no-hitter against those being healed!!!
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RFM – here’s the plot twist: there is no such thing as “priesthood.” The priesthood of Aaron is inexorably tied to the Law of Moses and consequently expired with Christ.
There’s no record anywhere of Peter, James and John appearing to Joseph and Oliver and “restoring priesthood.” None. If you’ll read Alma 11 and 12 and Helaman 8, you’ll see “The Holy Order of God,” commonly referred to as “Melchizedek Priesthood” in the church, is never referred to as “Priesthood.” The men who comprised that Order were those who first chose righteousness, exercised faith unto might works, and then entered the presence of God prior to his condescension in the person of Jesus Christ. They were then ordained with a “holy calling.” Their purpose was then to testify of Christ’s coming and preach repentance. These men included Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Moses, etc.
You won’t find a single reference to “priesthood power” in the Book of Mormon. Not one.
Talk of “priesthood” did not enter the church until Sidney Rigdon arrived on the scene. There are no extant documents equating church offices with priesthood until June 1831 conference. Priesthood is not mentioned in any founding documents. David Whitmer, later in his life, wrote that the idea of two priesthoods and lineal priesthood all originated in the mind of Sidney Rigdon.
All miracles are dependent upon faith alone. Ether 12 and Hebrews 11 are parallel chapters. What do they teach us? Every miracle and mighty work is the result of faith. Nothing else.
So why are miracles absent in the LDS church? We are a church built on false tradition, “living prophets,” “modern revelation,” and non-existent priesthood. It’s not built on faith, repentance and the baptism of fire and water.
RFM…nice cast. There are a lot of these types of problems: priesthood with no power, scripts with no history, claims with no foundation, historical narrative with no proof, doctrines without even claimed revelation…etc.
In my mind, its an accountability game, and also a game where the leadership sets up a trail of “plausible deniability”. When someone is not healed, they now have a foundation where they set up their own ‘straw man’ of having faith NOT to be healed. This argument negates the doctrine, but is used as a whipping post to control the failing narrative of faith to heal. NOW…SHAZAAM!…we have an argument that superior faith is “TO NOT BE HEALED”.
I don’t even know what the LDS church stands for anymore. It shifts so much, I get whiplash trying to figure it out.
RFM thanks for the Country Joe!
Thank you as always RFM for a great podcast.
If faithful LDS members tune in to conference for just random talks or sessions, these stories you highlight from the conference talks may move some people to “love” more, or to “give service” more in their daily lives of serving family and ward members through sickness and trials.
When they are all highlighted as you have done, it really does show a pattern. A consistent pattern of people caring for others that could happen in any family or community each day around the world with or without any affiliation with any church. And certainly without the Priesthood.
It seams that the Priesthood in 2018 is used only in title and administration, and gives the top 15 in the church the “authority” to tell us about new changes in policies within the church. These are important policies mind you…. like telling us that the Home Teaching Program is being replaced with the Ministering Program, or that another Temple is coming to Utah. Hooray for the saints in Layton! They have been praying for this for so long! Or let’s not forget the Priesthood in action by telling us that God wants the High Priest and Elders Quorums to be consolidated into just Elders Quorums. It’s a good thing we have the Priesthood to give us that revelation as well.
Thanks for putting it out there RFM. I love your perspective on all of it!
EVH
Radio Free Mormon,
This was another excellent episode. I find your commentary very insightful and itslices through all the window dressing that makes it appear plausible. I look forward to your episodes and listen to them first.
I also appreciate your tenacity on McKenna Denison’s case and seeing the records request through to the end.
Thank you so much for your contribution to shining the light on the truth.
Jesus states in the testaments that his work is to glorify God and to bear witness thereof. If you aren’t looking for miracles you won’t find them.
In the first story related by Larry Echohawk, the death of his brother and sister-in-law, the accident that creates tragic, mangling death is not the lack of priesthood, but the violation of physical law by the driver exceeding 85 miles an hour. A law was broken, a physical law. The young Echohawk couple were at the intersection of an automobile violating natural physical law. They were innocent, however innocence does not prevent or protect us. Mortality is very difficult and hard thing. Very difficult. It is meant to be full of suffering. Perhaps this is why you all are suffering. These are your learning moments.
This discussion is nothing more than cinematic cynicism. In 1998 I stood with Apostle Eyring while he prounced a priesthood blessing upon a young girl of 10 yr suffering with cirrhosis of the liver. Magnificent promises were made, including promises of organ transplant, a full abundant life and a family. Within a few months she was recovering fully. Now a grown woman, married with children she is a testament of faith and priesthood. She did not live, nor does so now, live in Utah.
The cynicism of these remarks belie lives of doubt. The Doctrine and Covenants speaks of being appointed unto life and unto death (D&C 42:48). This past conference spoke of the latter, so be it.
There have been many experiences of health healings that have not been noted simply out of modesty and meekness and humility. Brethren, this conduct ought not to be so. Stop looking beyond the mark.
I ask myself, “Is it I?” That gives me pause to realize how small, insignificant and unlearned I am. I believe in this troubled world of acute accusation and derision we would all do well to be careful about contention and fault-finding.
There have been times when members have spoken out about inequities in administration. There have been changes. The changes will still occur. The voices listened to will be ones who are constructive, thoughtful, and sensitive.
Why does a priesthood blessing have to promise an organ transplant?
Sometimes I get wrapped up in the emotional nature of these conference addresses that I don’t see the bullshit right in front of me. Thanks RFM for being stoic and seeing through the platitudes.
Sad. These messages are a far cry from one of the great LDS speeches on miracles by Matthew Cowley in a 1953 BYU devotional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSZyGylaW1w
A couple of “aha” moments while listening RFM-
-Being healed “by the priesthood” has been set up as a false faith. My understanding is that we are healed by FAITH, period. See Alma 15: 4-11 to see how Zeezrom was healed. Interesting the commonality of this and Bro Cowley’s talk, of having faith in the recipients faith.
-RE Elder Holland’s speech, and this is me just thinking out loud, isn’t an immediate call to 911 (the first thing you do) a negation of faith? Isn’t a person pretty much admitting that their faith isn’t strong enough to heal so better have the ambulance on ready?
Yep, I’m betting they got sued for trading “tithing” for priesthood healings… But, you knew that.
Sad. These messages are a far cry from one of the great LDS speeches on miracles by Matthew Cowley in a 1953 BYU devotional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSZyGylaW1w
A couple of “aha” moments while listening RFM-
-Being healed “by the priesthood” has been set up as a false faith. My understanding is that we are healed by FAITH, period. See Alma 15: 4-11 to see how Zeezrom was healed. Interesting the commonality of this and Bro Cowley’s talk, of having faith in the recipients faith.
-RE Elder Holland’s speech, and this is me just thinking out loud, isn’t an immediate call to 911 (the first thing you do) a negation of faith? Isn’t a person pretty much admitting that their faith isn’t strong enough to heal so better have the ambulance on ready?
If “priesthood power” and healing by priesthood blessings were a real thing, and if mormons had a lock on Priesthood and therefor on the healing power of priesthood blessings, wouldn’t that show up in signifiant statistical evidence? Wouldn’t hospitals in high-LDS areas show significantly greater results in measurements of healing and recovery, survival of cancer and other diseases, etc? Wouldn’t all measures of mortality and morbidity show much better numbers in Utah, Idaho, Arizona, etc? In other words, shouldn’t we be able to show from statistically valid data that mormons heal/survive/recover at rates significantly greater than control groups? Wouldn’t conference talks include references to statistical studies that show that a person is 100 times more likely to survive cancer, Alzheimers, etc if she/he got a priesthood blessing? (The fact that I’ve not seen any such statistical data from the church may be my answer).
Nice podcast. Thanks.
On the other hand, there are witnesses and testimonies that are too numerous to count that healings have have taken place in the Church, and without the Church.
I have had hands laid on me, and have laid hands on others and seen instant recovery.
The common denominator?
Faith in Christ.
In fact, just last week I heard a wonderful testimony of healing from a Christian brother who said a friend was recently dying of cancer. The doctors said that the person was going to die very soon, but their church congregation fasted and prayed, and the person was healed, and the next MRI scan miraculously showed that the cancer had completely disappeared. The doctors were astonished and incredulous in fact.
But the members of the congregation, who fasted and prayed in the name of Christ, all knew what happened.
Miracles and healings do take place. Praise to the Lord for that fact.
However with the rapidly deterioration of faith in the Lord coupled with the rapid acceleration of idolatry in the Mormon Church, such miracles of healing, one would expect to precipitously decline in the Church. This latest General Conference offers evidence, as you so astutely point out, that the day of miracles is coming to an end. Faith in a dead priesthood will not heal. Only belief animated by faith in the living Christ will heal.
“Behold I say unto you… it is by faith that miracles are wrought…wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.”
I don’t think RFM disbelieves in miracles – rather there clearly aren’t any happening at the top 15 level. The one thing RFM forgot to mention and my TBM wife tried to call me out on it was Rusty nailson’s talk about giving a prayer instead of a blessing. As I told my wife, if they really want to encourage the rank and file to give more blessings with greater courage and faith instead of so much doubt that we merely pray for another then GIVE SOME MIRACULOUS EXAMPLES!!!
Thus the conference dripped with irony – hey you men have more courage and faith, to help you listen to these 11 inspiring stories.
What a great profit.
I sure enjoy your podcasts! I find them entertaining, informative and extremely interesting! I love your sense of humor. I’m looking forward to hear more podcasts from you. Thank you for all your hard work.
This was the worst podcast in this series I’ve listened to so far, and I’m listening in chronological order. The problem concept of the lack of healings is good, spot-on. The logic supporting it is horrendous. e.g. Couldn’t have God called a taxi for the drunk driver?