It has finally happened. I received a disciplinary notice from my stake president. Would those who feel any attachment to this podcast or to me, would you please send positive thoughts into the universe for my family and friends. I always knew that full honesty and transparency and shining a light on unhealthiness and deception would eventually end with me being severed from my tribe. But many around me expected better from the Church and are feeling hurt by this latest detail to transpire. If you have a desire to contact me please email me at ReelMormon AT gmail DOT com.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
You must be making a difference if the church feels the need to go after you. Keep it up!
Have you read/watched Unveiled Grace by former BYU professor? Also her son has Adams Road Ministry. Gods best to you and your family!!!
Bill,
My heart goes out to you, at the same time I believe you choose to separate from the church far before the church is deciding to separate itself from you.
You have decided to not only stop attending, pay tithing, go to the temple, wear garments, but on top of all that you no longer provide a balance perspective. You overly criticize, even if it is rightfully so, and have very little empathy for the church it’s cause and it’s mission. You no longer are even willing to recommend the church to non-members. Thank you for you honesty in all this…
Perhaps this will ultimate be more of a blessing to you than a curse. The meaning of this potential excommunication is up to you. I’m not surprised for this outcome, but I am sad and were prefer it weren’t so. I’d much rather have you still be in the fold even if it were on the fringes or margins of the tribe.
Regardless of your status as a member of the church or not I will love you just the same and so will God (our ultimate maker). You are loved no matter what. I hope one day we can meet in person, whether in this life or the next. I’m certain we can one day make this happen.
All the best to you and your family, and maybe, just maybe… years down the road when the church catches up to the facts and reality and embraces it’s own nuance, and becomes more inclusive… perhaps then you might consider rejoining once again. But even if it be nevermore, I’m sure you will have a place on the right side of heaven, regardless of everything, because you have been honest, trustworthy, and are a sincere seeker of truth (Christ) and have been all your life… and this is why you will always have the gift and power of the holy ghost (1 Ne 10:17).
May you always continue to be fair, be a voice and defender of the little guys out there. Your wisdom has helped me grow, and emancipate myself from the dominant narrative of the church… for that I will always be in your debt.
Thank you &
best regards always,
David MacKay
Bwahahaha. Who in their good conscience could “recommend the Church” to anyone?
#jokeoftheday
There is only one reason you can make this type of statement towards Bill; you simply have not read, studied, or prayed as carefully about the same volume of information that he has. If you did, you would be extending far more empathy than criticism. I spent the better part of 15 agonizing years trying to reconcile the Church’s doctrinal and historical claims against the reality of evidence leaving no stones unturned. I started with nothing more than tinges of “Hmmm, this doesn’t make a lot of sense…”, and decided to try and acquire greater context and a broader base of understanding. In almost every case, the more I read and enquired of people smarter than me, the more I discovered the Church was obfuscating and withholding many truths. A loving God simply would not work in this way towards His children. Either we have a God here who is incompetent, a God who doesn’t care, or a character in Joseph Smith who took great liberties with the truth – pick one. Please, don’t take anyone’s word for it, especially Bill’s, mine, or anyone else’s; just read the primary source material available from a number of 19th century Church-owned archives and compare it to the doctrines espoused today. Something doesn’t add up. So once again, it is far easier as a Church to keep shooting every messenger through excommunication, than to excise a significant body of Mormon doctrine that is now verifiably untrue. Faith is believing and hoping when there is little evidence for or against something. Delusion is believing when there is an abundance of evidence against something.
You don’t know me very well… but I understand from where you come from. I was hoping that Bill Reel would continue to pioneer and champion the middle way.
He has fought the good fight, I suppose it’s time for him to pass on the torch to others. I know things don’t add up, I’m aware of the messiness and yet I still want to help the church mature and become healthier for everyone.
David’s comment is “extending far more empathy than criticism”. I’m not sure how anyone who actually read it could think otherwise. Just because a comment doesn’t say “I agree with everything you’re saying a hundred percent” doesn’t mean it lacks empathy. Unless this is in response to another comment that’s been deleted. In either case, though, your empathy seems incredibly one-sided. You urge someone else to have it but immediately turn around and insist that anyone who disagrees with you simply hasn’t done enough research, and then go so far as to dismiss our beliefs as “verifiably untrue” and “delusion”. There are scholars in the Church who have studied LDS doctrine and history far longer than you have, who are “smarter than you” in your own words, and still choose to believe. Contrary to popular lies, not all of them work for BYU either. I’m no scholar and I’ve only been seriously looking at church history for eight years, but I consider myself pretty intelligent (and virtually anyone who knows me would agree with this) and I see many reasons to believe even without taking into consideration my undeniable spiritual witnesses. Apparently that makes me delusional. How can you complain about a real or perceived lack of respect from believers when you refuse to grant us any?
In response to your rhetorical question, David: me.
What’s fascinating is that history records that Joseph Smith was brought to court around 42 times…give or take. In none of these efforts to find him guilty of crimes was he found guilty. Yet after his death, when there is no legal requirement of innocent until proven guilty, we find that where those who heard and considered upon the evidences presented could find no guilt or blame, that now a jury deliberates upon a historical presentation decades after the facts have been muddied and construed and some resoundingly declare the law be damned, those who judged were fools – he was guilty, he was guilty, he was guilty…and in the saddest paradox known, in judging Joseph, they open the door to the potential prison that Joseph sought to save them from having to know – a kingdom of damnation in the eternities.
Bill … thinking of you, Amanda and your lovely children.
Their fear drives them.
“The Corporation of Christ™” is desperate to shut members the hell up fast before their sacred skeletons all fall out of the closet? Truth is offensive and not of their puppet-Jesus?
By their fruits ye shall know them: “Obey Us! Don’t question Us! The debate is over!” are mantras and hard and fast rules of none other than Satan’s Plan to force “salvation,” the glory to Them!
Which plan did you vote for or do you vote for now? Have you sold your agency and truth for “status and safety?” Have you betrayed Jesus and bought your salvation in “the Corporation of Pharisees™,” the only Ones who can lead you to their one and only true god?
Bill, they are literally ex-ing you for conduct becoming of a true seeker and follower of Christ and His Truths. They also demand that you agree to shut up about the proceedings in entirely and say nothing about it for fear of losing other members and potential members to truth? How much more can one follow Satan than that? Works in darkness, hiding their light under a bushel…?
It’s not “The Corporation of Christ.” The correct name is “The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.”
Truth is that you are probably better off without this organization. But I’m so sorry that they are putting you and your loved ones through this. Hugs and support.
“You have been reported?” By whom? Will you have the opportunity to face your accusers, per the instructions in Section 102?
Being under the influence or control of a tyrant is extremely painful. The process of getting out from under that control os also extremely painful. And after you’re away, it is so rewarding to look back on how far you’ve come. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m sorry about the affect it can have on your relationship with family and friends who are still under the tyrant’s influence. I hope they, too, will see this for what it is: the evil being done is not being done by you.
I’m constantly astounded by how unintelligent these supposed men of god are in their actions. They feel justified in their actions because of all the approval they get, but outside of that bubble they do not see how they repeatedly prove all their critics right. Personally, I find their despicable actions quite validating, becuase they reaffirm that I made the correct decision to leave the corrupt organization behind. But I am sorry for the individuals this harms.
I’m so disgusted by this! If the church and it’s ‘court of love’ has nothing to hide then why do all the participants on your side have to sign a confidentiality statement?! So much for transparency in the church!
I read somewhere recently that the increase of excommunications over the last 10 years is by way of Russell M. Nelson.
I’m sorry that you have to go through this. I guess when you’re a member of this church you can have dissenting opinions but have to keep them to yourself. What kind of a church is that?! This is America and I thought we had free speech here? I guess not if you’re a “Mormon”! Oops, Latter Day Saint, oops, lds, oops, a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Did I finally get it right? Good, Satan be gone!
Positive vibes and prayers for you and your family.
Bill, please, please, please, make some recording of this. They will tell you that it is not right to record it, but the corporation DOES record it. NEWSFLASH, they will not give you a copy of the record either. Ask Sam Young. My opinion, tell them exactly how you feel. Show them the TRUTH. The truth shall set you free. Free from the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Thank you Bill for all your hard work, sincere truth seeking and honest discussions on so many topics. I really loved the seer stone gastrolith podcast! We had just been to southern UT the week before and found several of our own gastrolith stones, it’s fascinating!
I put in over 40 years of time, money and emotion to that corporation, only to find out I’d been lied to and deceived. I stopped attending a few years ago and just last night I submitted my resignation. I kept my name on there for the sake of my mother and mother-in-law, but I just can’t live with my name being associated with it anymore.
I congratulate you on sticking it out to this crossroad and wish you and your family the best in moving forward and believe you will find greater joy and happiness than you have ever known before, once you get past this. This has been my experience since I’ve been out: I’ve been happier and more satisfied with my life than ever before, less stressed, great relationship with my kids, marriage has been happier, etc. But this depends on your wife making the journey with you, otherwise the church get’s in the middle and can rip families apart.
Sometimes I wish I had gone into a church court, just so I could tell them all that they have absolutely no power over me, that their priesthood is just make believe and their world is not the truth. But I know it would have done no good, it was easier to just leave it and now try to leave it alone. But that’s not so easy either, because of family and friends still in it. The stake missionaries stopped by a couple of weeks ago, so it does not leave me alone either, but maybe once my resignation is complete…
Carpe diem oh Captain my Captain
Bill,
Not surprising that this should occur. Where is free agency and freedom of speech?? So if you decide to attend and you are asked to sign the confidentiality agreement and as they say all others will be signing it, asked for a copy of it before everything starts. When Sam Young went through this process he asked for a copy after the fact and they would not give him one. Again secrecy over just one small part of the whole process. I am so sorry that this has been pushed on you and you have much support to get through this process. I have intentionally resign my membership in the church so if I should speak out in the future the church will have no leverage on me. My best to your family and thank you for all the hard work you do in your podcast. It has surely opened my eyes to many things that I had not known and validated knowledge I’d already had.
How can the church (or its leader) write paragraph four in the letter and still consider themselves honest? Don’t they believe that honesty requires openness? Good luck Bro. Reel. You hold the high ground!
Bill,
Our family is thinking of you as you go through this ordeal. No matter how attached or unattached to the church you currently are, the council itself and anticipation of the council are emotionally tumultuous. Wishing you peace as you prepare.
I suggest writing a summons and presenting it to stake leadership requesting their presence in a disciplinary council held by you in behalf of the Mormon Church for conduct unbecoming a church.
It’s a two-way street. Church leaders like to be the authority, yet you can be the authority over church leaders in respect to your relationship with the Mormon Church.
Best Wishes!!
Love. This.
Excellent idea! My wife and I would also like to sue the church for false truth claims and get our tithing back. Wish I had a couple million in chump change to get a class action together, even if we didn’t win it would be good to drag the COB through it and put in the courtroom fact vs. the COBs fiction.
Didn’t Tom Phillips already try doing this in the UK?
There was a summons for Thomas S. Monson but a higher court through the case out.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10619538/Head-of-Mormon-church-Thomas-Monson-summoned-by-British-magistrates-court-over-Adam-and-Eve-teaching.html
Some nut in the UK already tried that almost five years ago. The case was mocked and thrown out.
HTC This is the solution exactly. Excommunication is in fact not excommunication per se but rather a statement to the effect that they no longer wish to do business with you.The Mormon Church’s function was ever, only administrative. Bill Reel perhaps you should rather dismiss them by resigning after following HTC’s advice…allowing them any control over you is giving in to them, allowing the business partners to determine the course of your life.
Bill, sending well wishes your way, you’ve done amazing work
I’m so sorry Bill. The tent is shrinking. You are such an asset to both the church and community. I don’t understand your need to face this head on. It’s a ridiculous barbaric process. Why give them this opportunity to go through this ritual where the outcome is predetermined. There is nothing of courage and truth that will deviate their patriarchal process. May your heart heal if you expose it to this crucible.
Big hugs Bill.
If the church can’t tolerate people like you they really don’t care about truth anymore. I hope you don’t sign the NDA. I hope there’s a way that you can loudly proclaim that you have nothing to hide, and that if someone demands to do things in secret THEY must have something to hide.
Thank you for your honesty and hard work. Best of luck!
Don’t feel bad. Jesus would get a similar letter because His words about our church doesn’t necessarily become of a good church member.
D&C 50:
4 Behold, I, the Lord, have looked upon you, and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name.
Many months back I watched and listened to your entire interview with John Dehlin. I really liked your honesty and openness; despite John seeming to try and draw out your ‘unbelief’ in the church, you held fast to a fundamental underlying conviction that the church was true. I lost that conviction some years back and even as a young bishop in England, as well as a branch president some years afterwards, I struggled at odd times with doubts. Nevertheless, I was a seriously dedicated and active member from 18 till around 59 years of age, but in the end I knew for me the claims could not be sustained. The thing is Bill, I remember all the things that were taught back in 1964 onward and when I read the essays as well as many changing narratives the church tries to promote (as if this was what they had ALWAYS taught), I knew it was false…. I can see with perspective.
Apart from my wife dying, my excommunication had to be one of the worst moments of sadness in my life… despite at the time knowing in my mind the church was false. The dreadful sadness was probably compounded by my wives death one year before, but the essential feeling was one of being unloved and unwanted – like a lost child in a city and my parents had walked away, after kicking me to the ground. Bloody dreadful. Nevertheless, life moved on. I later found another beautiful woman, whom I have a lovely and happy life with. I wish you and your family peace, calmness and united spiritual power – I wish you a new and exciting vista – a vital and fulfilling life beyond the so-called courts of love.
May God give you strength and peace and comfort during this difficult time. Know that you are loved and appreciated by so many. God bless you and your family.
Don’t let them steal your time or energy. Repeat Jeremy Runnells’ actions and excommunicate YOURSELF. Thank you for your dedication BEING authentic.
The letter never says the words Jesus Christ. It uses the word savior only to more directly refer to the management of the church and their authority. You knew this was coming. It may be about your excellent work on the BY’s hijacking of the church. But I think it is more about hurt feelings from your attacks on general conference talks. By attacking Brigham, you attack the leaves of history long forgotten and difficult to substantiate. But when you uncover their marketing campaigns, you become a threat to their MLM income streams. Your biggest sin is shouting their acts from the rooftops.
Good.
If you don’t want to be a member, then leave. Quit moping around with tired nonsense like a little faggot.
Go join your fellow baby-rapists like Norton and fuck off.
Cunt.
I’m sad it came to this Bill. I’m not sure what make me most sad, the fact that you’ve reached this point or the number of people you’ve touched that completely misunderstand the purpose of a disciplinary court.
Joseph Smith once said:
“Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them.
When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant.”
It truly seems that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can leave the Church but they can’t leave it alone.
Not surprising and seriously it’s probably time. You don’t really like or believe in the church anymore, so what’s up with all the drama about having your eternal ties severed? You have long since stopped believing all of that stuff anyways. I can’t really think of a private organization that would let someone stay if they were actively trying to tear it down the way you are, so it makes logical sense when you look at it through the churches eyes. You literally called Elder Holland a liar. Not very tactful in the way you go about things lately. I have enjoyed your podcast over the years, but it has gotten harder to listen to this past year. If you would have continued with your usual tactful but honest self the outcome may have been different. It is what it is though and if you are honest with yourself, it does make sense knowing what you know about how the church works.
Bill,
I am not surprised at all. I am not sure why some members believe they can become at emnity with church leadership and pronounce it publicly and still have or expect full fellowship with the Lord’s annointed? Shepherds do not invite the wolves to eat alongside the sheep. No, they are driven out as to not threaten the flock.
Bill, thanks for sharing your faith journey in real time with the world, from the time that you were still a standing bishop until it all fell apart for you. It has empowered so many people to listen to their own inner voice and light and to take a journey that led to authentic living, critical thinking, and inner freedom. All the best to you and your family as your old tribe throws you out and you find solace with new friends to replace them with.
I am very sorry for the agony this must be causing you, Bill. You chose to speak your truth and “the authorities” wishing to preserve their power and the church structure want to shut you down. While this is no surprise, the fact that you have not chosen to leave the church on your own before they got to you means you were perhaps hoping to transform them from within?
As I am not a Mormon, I know little about the institutional workings, but the letter they sent you screams of fear and repression. Why make such a huge deal about the proceedings being kept secret? What are they hiding?
Just remember, many who dared to speak out (from other organizations) were thrown out, but their truths became common knowledge over time – For example – Martin Luther – has anyone ever heard of the Catholic Church selling indulgences any time in the last 500 years?
The time for institutions holding authority over individuals is slowly fading. Whatever the result of this council, I am holding thoughts that it will result in minimal suffering for you and your family, that it will support the truth, and that in the long run (even if it can’t be so in the short run) it will work toward the “greater good.”
I keep expecting the church to realize this approach does far more harm to itself than good. The Catholic Church has grown to the point that it feels no real need to cast away those who question, doubt or even oppose its teachings. Why is it not a positive thing for different views to be entertained? If a person has read widely, considered a great amount of information, and in the process acquired some doubts about traditions, why should that matter to others who are just not interested enough to look into the available material?
As a matter of personal outlook, I think that as long as a person with serious doubts about authority claims is willing to voluntarily belong to and serve in any church, they ought to be allowed. The church obviously disagrees, and now has you in the crosshairs. It makes me mourn. If you are content to remain a member, I think you ought to be allowed to remain so.
Any church has the right to exclude members. But when membership is entirely voluntary, excluding volunteers from membership can only lead to its decline.
I’m not sure what all the concern is about. If you don’t believe in the Church or it’s doctrine…leave.
Several years ago I was an Elders Quorum president and asked multiple individuals who wanted no contact with the Church to write a letter to the bishop and ask for their named to be removed from the records. Only one persin actually did so. I respect him for his decision.
Recently I resigned from a business group that I could no longer support. I followed my conscience and withdrew my membership. If you don’t believe in the Church, show your conviction and ask that your name be removed. I know it’s difficult, but doing the right thing often is.
To me it’s like someone not voting and then complaining about the outcome of an election. It seems a bit disingenuous when someone says they cannot agree with an organization, yet fight to stay in it.
My heart goes out to you and your family
Sadly – you are a typical misguided false prophet. You are someone that places their inspiration above that of the anointed prophets and choose to preach your own gospel. I don’t mind your personal self destruction – but you are clearly influencing others. For that there will be an accounting – one that you will not enjoy. At one time, you likely bore testimony that you knew the church was true. You now doubt yourself and your prior spiritual feelings. And you do so based on sophistry and false reasoning. I too have studied the history, the documents, the anti-lit – the best Satan could gin up. All of it is junk and based on false premises and distorted thinking. People “like you” want to set up their own measurement for who can and cannot be a true prophet. But when you apply these arbitrary standards to acknowledged ancient prophets – they all fail. This typically results in not only a loss of faith in the Church but in religion itself. This “end point” speaks for itself – shouting who the author of these ideas really is.
I suggest you repent. Eternity lasts a very long time.
I am new to your Podcast but I do know that if it was true it could withstand scrutiny! Continue doing what your doing. My family will lift yours up in prayer!