Episodes

Radio Free Mormon: 052: The More Things Change – IN THE TEMPLE – The More They Stay The Same

RFM and Bill Reel take on the recent Temple changes and dissect the historical context of these changes, why these changes indicate regardless of how Leaders want them portrayed, and tackle the blatant lying in the First Presidency Statement.

RESOURCES:

2019 Temple Changes
Historical Overview of Temple Changes
Oath to Avenge the Blood of the Prophet
Temple Cursings of Government Leaders (Start on Page 15)
First Presidency Statement

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18 thoughts on “Radio Free Mormon: 052: The More Things Change – IN THE TEMPLE – The More They Stay The Same

  1. Its still a covenant to follow the patriarchy since the covenant for both husband and wife to now follow Christ directly is a farce. “Following Christ” is always so corruptly conditioned on “Obey and don’t question the fickle erring Brethren” as your Only sure path to Christ who always comes before Christ since They are the Light and the Way to him. Following the brethren is the stinking patriarchy still, and completely unChristlike.

    Incomplete change. Still toxic, Antichrist, bad as ever. It’s still One step forward, Two steps back, just what got us here. Stay in the boat with No rudder, the “Big Ship Zion” since “God’s sacred anointed ones” chopped the rudder off when they perverted the Christ’s real Law of Common Consent and turned it (using the priesthood for sale) into the law of common coercion and bullying to salvation (Satan’s Plan). No rudder any more, except aimed straight to hell (Cult-heaven), on earth.

    We thank thee oh “God” for an ever changing Profit to guide us to the ever fickle, bullying “Christ” whom They created in their own totally F’ed up BPD fickle image.
    1 Nephi 8:
    4 But behold, Laman and Lemuel, I fear exceedingly because of you; for behold, me thought I saw in my dream, a dark and dreary wilderness. (Dark and dreary? Who could Possssibly lead us through that???)

    5 And it came to pass that I saw a man, and he was dressed in a white robe; and he came and stood before me.

    6 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, and bade me follow him.

    7 And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste.

    8 And after I had traveled for the space of many hours in darkness, I began to pray unto the Lord that he would have mercy on me, according to the multitude of his tender mercies.

    9 And it came to pass after I had prayed unto the Lord I beheld a large and spacious field.

    • Oh, and the wife will now know her husband’s new name and lead him through the veil. Oh, wait, no more veils? No patriarchy in the temple anymore…

    • “One step Forward, Two steps Back” means they always change just part of the toxic crap out but leave the rest of the BS firmly entrenched and then cover it up by piling more lies on top of it all. Typical.

      This is why the Holy Pharisees’ foul pile of lies, bullying and abuse for Jesus is still growing higher and deeper and has not diminished despite “positive” “changes, like they made for Sam Young, our children and for Christ too.

      Lie upon lie, decpet upon decept, here a little there a little… till its stacked so high and so deep and stinky that they can’t fix it or someone might notice their fraud which Jesus warned of relentlessly.

      This is why they must command all ewe sheeple to not see or question The Anointed Emperor’s exquisite and most grand New Reel Clothes. Too sacred to question or discuss.

    • Joe,
      Woodruff’s letter turns my insides. It’s been mormon doctrine that drove me off and I hadn’t read this letter before. At this moment I feel a bit sick. Cult went through my head when I received my endowment in 1983 and I never enjoyed the temple. I am a sufferer of many points of mormon doctrine and I can’t believe I held on 35 more years especially with the abuse I suffered from leaders and other members. Only a cult can hold its members like that. When I hear those who are sad the church isn’t true it floors me. I grew wings and flew away from the devastation that is mormonism. I never thought I would feel this but right now, right here, I hope the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints is wiped from the face of the earth.

      • K,

        You are very kind to respond to my comment. I am sorry that I made you sick (or at least the letter I linked). At the same time, I completely agree with you and find Mormonism and its respective hate speech to be revolting and sickening. As with most bureaucracies, it seeks to survive and destroy anything that gets in its path for survival and expansion. I was lucky and found Sunstone, Dialogue and the New Mormon History shortly after my mission. I learned quickly that Mormonisms dichotomy of black and white / good and evil were made up. I hope for the best with you and your future life without Mormonism

        • The stack of sacred lies, abuse and bullying, never to be questioned or discussed since it is all so Holy.

  2. Reed Smoot was an LDS church apostle when he was elected to be Utah’s senator. So his statement saying the temple endowment could not change made in the Senate hearings was as authoritative as the statements of other leaders you cited.

  3. Is it too late to claim the $50 challenge. I have found a talk by Apostle Stephen L. Richards given in 1932. Elder Richards later became First Counselor in the First Presidency. The name of the talk was “Bringing Humanity to the Gospel”.

    https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/015-43-46.pdf

    Here’s quote from that talk. “…the revelations of the new dispensation, as well as those of the Bible, were in the beginning and are now interpreted by men, and men interpret in the light of experience and understanding.

    …it is entirely compatible with the genius of the Church to change its procedure and interpretations as changes in thought, education and environment of people from time to time seem to warrant, provided, of course, that no violence is done to the elemental concepts of truth which lie at the basis of our work. I would not discard a practice merely because it is old. Indeed, I believe that one of the tests of worth is the test of time. But on the other hand, I would not hang on to a practice or conception after it has outlived its usefulness in a new and ever-changing and better informed world.

    Old conceptions and traditional interpretations must be influenced by newly discovered evidence. Not that ultimate fact and law change, but our understanding varies with our education and experience.”

    • Too general (it is like the quotes they already gave) since it is about practices and doctrines but does not mention the practice of constant change for the temple ordinances, which happen anyway.

  4. Two things that would increase the parity between men and women in the temple:

    1-No more MFMFMFMF in the prayer circle. If men and women are indeed equal, it doesn’t matter if the there are 5 men and 7 women or 7 men and 7 women and it shouldn’t matter if they are standing next to a man or a woman in the circle.

    2-Since God includes a Heavenly Mother, there should be no reason women can’t stand in the place of God on the other side of the veil.

    • 1. This was and still is the practice today. When there aren’t enough women or men to form a prayer circle with couples, two women or two men can be paired together.

      2. Indeed. Men should be received by men and women by women.

      • 1-I’ve never seen that at our small temple (where I think it is especially needed.) Glad to hear some temples are doing it.

        2-Why should men receive men and women receive women?

  5. Thank you. I’m trying hard to hold all of the truth, the messiness, the shame and embarrassment of a Patriarch that wants to grasp,and cling tight to ridiculous,antiquated ways of controlling and manipulating members. I’m trying to hold the awareness of these truths without running away, severing all ties or burying my head in overwhelming grief. I’m so grateful for the facts that you provide and share here. My hope is that a time will come, sooner than later, that the church will stop trying to hide, obscure and manipulate, and instead begin embracing the messy truth, embarrassing, complicated history, and teaching it openly and transparently to members from primary age up, as is developmentally appropriate.That would be when they finally have integrity and can maturely have real faith that the whole truth will only strengthen the the church in Christ-like ways. The real, living, always growing kind of faith. We must as individuals and a church accept that change is normal and healthy, that development is part of eternal progression, and stop acting like we’re all supposed to remain as infants. I would like to also express my appreciation that the Bishop of my church always encourages me to ask questions, and allowed me to ask questions about the endowment in the Celestial Room on more than one occasion, so I thought this was the norm. (I’ve only been an active member for a short time)
    Thank you, again and again. Also, I’m so saddened Bill, that you were severed from the church. It seems that tiny steps forward are sometimes made and huge steps back, are frequently made.

  6. This isn’t specifically about the temple changes, but as I was listening I couldn’t help but think that a lot of the haze around these changes would be immediately cleared up if the leadership would simply publish the revelations received where God commands his servants to make the changes instead of issuing press releases that have no scriptural weight.

    In my mind, it’s not about the Restoration undergoing revision – Joseph Smith was perpetually revising the practices of the LDS Church – but, the issue is that these changes aren’t backed up by any divine documentation.

    Compare these changes to how the (former) RLDS Church announced that they would be giving women the Priesthood back in 1984, by publishing a new section in their D&C with some commentary from their prophet Wallace B. Smith about how he had spent a great amount of time fasting and praying over divisive issues in his church:

    http://www.centerplace.org/library/study/dc/rdc-156.htm

    Anyway, just a thought.

  7. Where can I find the quotes you read by Smoot, Smith, and the others about how the covenants cannot be changed?

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