We continue our tour of the Gospel Topics Essays and with the essay Becoming Like God. The Goal- To share the LDS Church’s Gospel Topic Essays and help the both the believing member and the non-believer get a sense of the why these essays were written, who the intended audience is, whether these essays resolve the concerns of the faithful and non-believer and why they perhaps these essays even add to the disbelief of those who skeptical of the issues they find in Mormon History. the audio on this episode is a little distorted in places and we apologize for that.
Co-Hosts of this episode
Allan Mount is Co-host of the Marriage on a Tightrope podcast with his wife Kattie. After 35 faithful years in the church, it was the Gospel Topic Essays that acted as a catalyst to his faith transition. He is a sales director for a technology company in South Jordan Utah. Kattie and Allan have 4 children between the ages of 5 and 13.
Anthony Miller is an entrepreneur and education enthusiast in Billings, Montana, with Masters degrees in Business Administration and in Financial Services. After a lifetime of faithful membership in the church, he experienced a faith transition after he stumbled across the Gospel Topics Essays and similar materials in 2016, while he was searching for resources to support his adult gay son. Anthony blogs at UnpackingAmbiguity.com and is a frequent contributor to post and progressive Mormon support communities.
Bill Reel is a media producer and Pawn Shop Broker and lives in Southern Utah. Bill experienced a deep faith shift while serving as a LDS Bishop in 2012. Since then has has worked to be a voice to help others reconcile the complex issues of Mormonism. He is the the lead contributor of the Mormon Primer and host of Mormon Discussion Podcast
Resources:
Gospel Topic Essay Becoming Like God
Mormon Thinks Response to the Essay
Media covering the Mormon change to Not Getting a planet A
Media covering the Mormon change to Not Getting a planet B
All the Mormon sources where Leadership did say we get our own planet
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Sorry guys, but you can’t apply an obscene and offensive meaning every single time you see the word “seed” or “seeds”. It depends on the context. Earlier in the podcast you seem to be implying that “seed” is synonymous with “semen”. But clearly, many of the uses of the word “seed”, which you quoted, have vastly different meanings. For example, several of those uses are referring either to “offspring”, or perhaps to humans as “embryonic gods”. They are referring to our lowly state as contrasted to God’s exalted state. They are referring to our potential to progress into the same greatness as God. Regardless of where these embryos are created and incubated, it’s indisputable that we all begin life as embryos, both literally and figuratively.
@Timmy
I think if you go back and listen to the references, with the “seeds” comment and relationship to biological function and gender roles, we were conveying the perceptions expressed by women on the topic as they responded to Allan’s post in the Exponent II Facebook Group (that we left unnamed).
Many concerns were expressed to us from many women who perceived their eternal functions as biologically related, while their future roles as being simultaneously absent or hidden in the eternities from their seed, offspring, children, etc., in the way that they perceive in LDS teachings, Heavenly Mother might be absent or hidden in the Bible, in the Book of Mormon, in the D&C, in the Books of Moses and Abraham, and in present lesson manuals.
As a male, I probably would not have considered this perception something of concern, or even distress, for some individuals because that has largely been a blindspot for me, as much as I have sought to understand the experiences of others.
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Sorry sistas, no planet for you. God loves his priesthood wielding ever subordinate sons more then you. He is too busy using unrighteous dominion to keep heavenly mother from rescuing you.
Better luck in another universe in your next lives. This God is just so very set in his inconsistencies. Sorry, for now it is still, Lie upon Lie, Decept upon Decept.
So, suck it up sistas and take it like a woman while we guys take the subordination BS like real men. Sounds like Satan’s Plan on steroids?
I’ll bet you can’t wait for an eternity of follow the narcissists either? Sounds super celestial. Yep, count me out of that self-imposed eternal hell of a prison.
Almost unlistenable with the incessant “Quote”, “Unquote” references
I was so disappointed when Gordon B. Hinckley back down from the media to be more mainstream Christian like. I love the theology of being like God, but it saddens me that we don’t harp or develop it even further. Specially visions of what female Goddess can look like.
I don’t know if spiritual formation can be shadowless, there will always be some that are hurt by such a thought. In that case perhaps this theology is not for them and not for everyone.
May you reincarnate into some animal in your next life then.
What you wanted to say Bill:
http://scottwoodward.org/god_dealings_useofgoodmenoutsidechurch.html
Orson F. Whitney (Quorum of the Twelve)
Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of his Church, to help it along. They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. And the same is true of the priesthood and its auxiliaries inside the Church. Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the Truth; while others remain unconverted—for the present; the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in his own due time.
Our leaders may not be promising us our own planets anymore but some of us will be rewarded with mansions and some (I think me) with grass huts:
President Nelson April 2019 General Conference
I feel to say to my reticent friends:
“In this life, you have never settled for second best in anything. Yet, as you resist fully embracing the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, you are choosing to settle for second best.
“The Savior said, ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions.’ However, as you choose not to make covenants with God, you are settling for a most meager roof over your head throughout all eternity.”
When I hear words like this from Church leaders my head literally ends up in my hands!
I think the word you were looking for was Henotheism. That is what we are. The acknowledgment of multiple gods while specializing in the worship of one particular deity.
Another great episode!!
Mormon Research Ministry has all the scriptures that mormonism twists and turns to support its ridiculous ideas on their website. Every scripture used in this essay has been maligned.
Excellent catch on your take on the book of mormon as it is the most correct book on earth. Try taking the book of mormon and teach mormonism. It can’t be done.
Mormon doctrine on who and what God is; was not put together until 1916
Talmage, Widsoe, Roberts and Cannon, were tasked with solidifying mormon doctrine on god since up to that time it was all over the place. I love the comment “Lie upon Lie, Decept upon Decept.” Smith became a literal crazy on his path to being king of the world. He started out a modalist by his depiction of god in the book of mormon to having man be the center of the universe as god was once a man.
Don’t forget the recent changes in the temple right out of the gate: sisters are washed and annointed and pronounced clean to become queens and priestesses to the New and Everlasting Covenant. That’s worse than it was before.
Women take such hurt from mormon doctrine yet shockingly it’s men who leave at a much higher rate. It’s mind boggling.
And, Joseph Smith borrowed all his ideas from stuff he read. That’s why he was all over the place.
I’ll say it again, day one was a lie. A sickening lie. Ladies, wake up and get out.
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