Episodes

Mormon Awakenings: Episode 57a: It’s All Quantum

Jack discusses a decision to move across the country, and, the observer effect.

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9 thoughts on “Mormon Awakenings: Episode 57a: It’s All Quantum

  1. Jack, sincere thanks for this. I completely resonate, and appreciate your wisdom and insight. Much good luck to you and your family w/your move. Much love.

  2. Welcome to SLC Jack!
    I love listening to all different views and yours always makes me think which I appreciate.
    I’ve tried understanding “Lehi” experiences in my past and always end up beating my head against a wall trying to make personal and observed experiences fit, and wonder how you think about these questions and how you’ve made them fit into your personal god worldview .
    What if it the prompting you had doesn’t end up good? Is there any way to tell if a feeling is coming from god without looking back with hindsight to confirm faith?
    What if someone believes in something contradictory to a Christian god and has prompting that leads to positive results? Would the use of that experience be valid in supporting their belief?

    Whenever I try to reconcile the personal god with my human emotions and experiences I always end up with a pantheistic or atheistic view to make it work.
    Full disclosure, I hate labels, but to aid in perspective I think I line up as a Mormon/Atheist these days. Not sure I have a rational justification for that one though.

    Appreciate your perspective.
    Matt

    • Hi Matt. How does a pantheistic or atheistic view make things work for you? And what is a Mormon Atheist?

      • The following ideas stick in my mind. Take the classic Sunday testimony for example. “I know god cares about me and knows me personally because he knew how important it was for me to not be late to work so after I said a prayer he led me to my car keys.” That is consistent with the god of a Lehi experience. Now what about someone who is inspired by god to use holistic medicine on their child instead of traditional medical care and a simple infection ends up killing the child. In both instances the person receiving the revelation was convinced it was from god but had dramatically different outcomes. Which, or both, or neither really received a personal revelation? I think these ideas tie directly to the problem of evil for me as well.
        To reconcile these two situations I end up thinking there is no god (atheistic), or if there is a god it is not a personal active being in our lives. A first cause, or designer, but not personal or even a a being like us. (Pantheistic). These are not the only way to reconcile the situation, but the ones that make sense, or “work” for me. That is why I was curious as to how you make real life scenarios of negative inspiration results work.

        Mormon Atheist? I mentioned I don’t have a great rationalization for that one, but imagine someone that is born a Jew, is always culturally considered Jewish even if they no longer believe in Judaism. I am born and raised a Mormon and that culture will always be a part of me, but I no longer believe.

        Thanks for responding. I truthfully ask these questions in sincerity.
        Matt

        • But what is your experience? Have you ever had an experience where something or someone from beyond enlightened, helped, guided, or protected you? And if so, how? Did that “force” help you achieve what you set out to do, or did it dictate to you?

          And yes, there are people who do things that kill their children, or, they themselves kill their children. There is evil. And there are people who do really dumb things because they think someone or something is telling them to do it. There is lunacy. But, there is also a lot of good, a lot of technology, much improvement, abundant food, sunsets, festivals, music, etc etc. There are miracles and synchronicities. If the existence of evil implies there is no God, or, a merely an indifferent God, what does the existence of good imply? Clearly both positive and negative exist.

          Maybe the idea that there is nothing except what we see and feel with our senses makes you feel better about life–relieves a certain pressure. That’s fine and might be comforting for now. Maybe the idea of a powerful but indifferent being running things without a care for you makes you feel better in some way (seems more rational) and that’s fine too. And there is certainly nothing wrong with no longer believing what you were taught as a child at church (or, no longer understanding life the way you understood it as a child) because, well, you’re no longer a child. Or maybe what they taught you never made sense to you. And one day you may realize that you’ve outgrown these ideas, or other ideas–such is progress and growth. But discarding our misunderstandings about God and life, or discarding the misunderstandings as taught to us by others, does not mean there is nothing to find and no truth to learn about God and life. The mere fact that your heart beats without you ever thinking about it should imply there is much to life we have yet to learn.

  3. I am not implying that evil or people following personal inspiration that leads to evil is a disproof of god. I am saying that I don’t see it as consistent with supporting the personal god portrayed in your example in the podcast or typical examples in church that are used as evidence for god. When they are used as faith supporting “evidence” of god then I pose the question that never seems to be answered by anyone. For what reasons do you have confidence that your inspiration is from a god?
    I am also not implying that there is no truth to find. I seek truth but I want to believe as many true things as possible for good reasons.
    Believing in something because it gives comfort has no bearing on truth, nor do I think it ethical to convince yourself of a false belief to feel better.
    So if you followed your inspiration to come to Utah and everything went to crap instead of going well, would you still think it was inspiration and why?

    • If everything goes to crap, you’ll be the first to know.

    • Final thoughts and questions: I think what you’re saying is evil seems to contradict God, or, at least isn’t consistent with existence of a good God. What about all the good in the world? Is that not consistent with a good God? And if our inner feelings don’t represent a guidance system of sorts, a way to access inspiration from beyond, what are they for?

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