SIGNIFICANT ABSURDITIES ONE MUST BELIEVE TO ACCEPT MORMONISM
The goal here is to provide a list of items that in order to believe Mormonism one must accept the following as true, if one accepts the official narrative of their faith and the words of their prophets. These items are seen as irrational. One may choose to believe them in order to maintain faith but there are explanations or interpretations in each instance that require less conjecture. For example If I’m out in a cabin in the woods and I hear tapping on the tin roof, it’s simply more rational to conclude a raccoon than a space alien. You may still in fact choose to believe the noise was caused by a Space Alien. Yet nearly anyone on the planet would agree the raccoon explanation is more rational than the alien one. But the only reason at all to assume one is more rational than the other is because that explanation accounts for the data with exponentially less conjecture. Anytime you choose the solution or belief that requires more conjecture, you are in fact being irrational. When you take into account a multitude of beliefs or perspectives that each on their own requires more conjecture than other beliefs or perspectives you begin to run into a wall where the statistical improbability is insurmountable.
1.) That Moroni traveled at a minimum from Palmyra NY to Manti Utah and then back again around 420 AD traversing wild and harsh landscapes alone across distances essentially unheard of by a single traveler in a relatively short amount of time. And If one proposes a second Hill Cumorah then now you have added a third stop that is also a absurdly significant distance. (SOURCE)
2.) That Nephi built a ship in the Arabian peninsula traveling across the ocean. (SOURCE)
3.) That the Jaredites built multiple barges carrying animal life and food and seeds and made it across the ocean without regard for what it takes to make such a voyage and care for the items aboard the vessels. (SOURCE )
4.) The Lamanites killed 230,000 Nephite soldiers in one day near Hill Cumorah. In comparison, the Battle of Antietam, the bloodiest battle in American history, had 3,600 casualties using modern weapons and artillery. Also noting there is zero evidence of such a battle having ever taken place.(SOURCE ) NOTICE THE AMOUNT OF CONJECTURE NEEDED
5.) The Book of Mormon proposes that 2 million men along with their wives and Children died on or near the Hill Ramah (Ether 15) (Same Hill as the Hill Cumorah). There is zero evidence of such a battle having ever taken place. (SOURCE ) NOTICE THE AMOUNT OF CONJECTURE NEEDED
6.) That a civilization (Nephites) lived during essentially the same time period as the Roman Empire, was twice the size of the Roman Empire, yet left no evidence of its existence behind. (SOURCE)
7.) Shiz a Book of Mormon combatant had his head cut off and still raised up. “”And it came to pass that after [Coriantumr] had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.” This is medically/scientifically impossible.(SOURCE)
8.) Nephi cuts off the head of Laban yet somehow avoids getting blood on Laban’s clothes which Nephi in turn undresses the dead body of Laban and places the clothes on himself thereby fooling the servant of Laban for an extended period of time. Height, weight, voice, no blood on the clothes all seems to make for a highly unlikely story that requires way more conjecture. (SOURCE)
9.) That while those of African heritage could not hold the priesthood prior to June 1978, that at any given moment in the Church between 1852 and 1978, the very leaders who dictated those members of color could not hold the Priesthood or go to the Temple, also had African lineage in their DNA (SOURCE)
10.) That God was okay with his modern prophets marrying and having sex with children as young as 14. That it was God’s idea even As Joseph proposedly enacts polygamy with deeply unhealthy and unethical behavior within it. (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE,
11.) That God commanded his prophet to marry and have sex with women who were already married to other men in spite of D&C 132 insisting that all wives after the first be Virgins who had never married. In Other words in spite of God saying (D&C Section 132) that Polygamy is to raise up seed and must be done only with virgin women and only after getting the permission of the first wife, Joseph smith seemingly breaks all of God’s rules while still claiming to be doing God’s work because he married non-virgins who were already married and didn’t produce offspring.(SOURCE)
12.) The sealed portion of the Book of Mormon is alledged to have contained the writing of the brother of Jared regarding the last days. When one considers this sealed portion was 1/2 to 2/3 of the Gold plates (Which would have also included plates that represented the 116 lost pages of manuscript from the Book of Lehi, this text written by a single author would have been longer than almost the entire King James Bible and yet only written by one person. (SOURCE)
13.) That Joseph states in his 1832 earliest personal journal account that he only saw the “Lord”(one being) at the same time his Book of Mormon Theology is Trinitarian. Then years later in 1838 claims to have seen both the Father and the Son at the same time he revises his Book of Mormon Theology to represent a Godhead that is separate from each other. Also noting that each account changes in the specific details, some of which contradict each other and seem significant. (SOURCE)
14.) That Lehi’s family is strangely referring to themselves as Christians before such a term or belief ever exists and yet don’t ever mention following any Jewish laws, customs, feasts, etc.(SOURCE)
15.) The Book of Mormon names animals that were in Joseph Smith’s contemporary landscape but not believed by all non-Mormon experts to have existed in Book of Mormon times. It appears to be anachronistic. (SOURCE – notice the amount of conjecture for faithful view)
16.) In spite of Nephi and the Jaredites taking “seeds of every kind” with them from the old World to the New in order to grow crops familiar with them once they get to their destination and in-spite of stating those seeds grew in abundance, there is no sign of any old world crops that would have been expected on those voyages found in America dating to the right entry time period. It appears to be anachronistic.(SOURCE)
17.) That the Jaredite Barges would have a cork on the top and bottom indicating this vessel would be flipped over and over during the trip. Imagine all passengers, livestock, seeds, honeybees, etc… being flipped over and over even if only from time to time. And consider the verse “Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.” Would one not clearly know which hole is up due to gravity by which surface their feet were on (One’s feet would never be on the ceiling)? Also know when it is safe to unstop the upper hole to exchange air based on when the voyage was calm? (SOURCE)
18.) The Book of Mormon mentions that the barges could not have windows as they could be dashed to pieces. The Author seems to indicate Windows of Glass (Material that can be dashed to pieces), when glass hasn’t been invented yet. Glass windows were invented in the 1st Century AD. So what material could be dashed to pieces and does such require added conjecture? (SOURCE vs 23)
19.) That while Joseph Smith believed he was translating particular Egyptian Papyri into the Book of Abraham, practically no evidence exists pointing to these papyri as the Book of Abraham and a mountain of Evidence runs contrary to such a belief. This in spite of Joseph telling us that the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated from were the very “writings of Abraham” written “by his (Abraham’s) own hand upon papyrus”(SOURCE, SOURCE).
20.) How could Joseph Smith (living in a 2 room house with his whole family) be woken 3 times in one night to receive instruction with light brighter than the noon day sun, and none of the other brothers sleeping in that bed seemed to notice?(SOURCE)
21.) Joseph Smith sealed himself to 22 other Women before being sealed to his first wife Emma. (SOURCE)
22.) That Joseph lied to Emma and at other times withheld and obfuscated his relationships to other women to keep Emma as much in the dark as he could.(SOURCE)
24.) In spite of Joseph Smith’s 5 Translation Productions (Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Book of Moses, Inspired Bible Translation, and the Kinderhook Plates) containing significant contextual errors such as anachronisms and plagiarism from available sources contemporary to Joseph Smith, one must still believe God was behind this inspired compilation (SOURCE).
25.) Why does the Church claim the Inspired version of the bible is a restoration of the corrupted and lost parts of the bible and yet BYU itself acknowledges much of the Inspired translation of the bible is a plagiarism from Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary, a popular contemporary source to Joseph smith’s day?(SOURCE & SOURCE)
26.) The Sun receives its light from the revolutions of Kolob. “the Sun…. borrow(s) its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth and the Sun in their annual revolutions.” (Reference). Its as if God only comprehends the universe in a limited way that would be similar to how Joseph Smith comprehended the Universe and in ways that completely contradict modern science and understanding. (SOURCE)
27.) How the ancient author of the Book of Moses seemingly borrowed heavily from Mathew and Luke’s concepts and sentence structure in-spite of that ancient author not having actual access to the books of Luke and Mathew. Especially in light of Mathew and Luke being such late writers to the New Testament and their disconnect in time from Jesus. (SOURCE)
28.) Joseph Smith was able to outrun his enemies on long distances loaded down with gold plates that weighed at a minimum between 40-60 lbs if we accept apologist’s conjecture on their material. Additionally, he struck not one, but three of his assailants with such strong force, to stop them dead in their tracks. All while holding and carrying the absurdly heavy plates with a single arm. Topography shouldn’t be ignored. The distance between the hill and the Smith home is approximately three miles. In JS’s day the terrain would have been unbearably brutal for anyone running with a 40–60 lb. treasure.(SOURCE)
29.) That Joseph said if anyone unauthorized looked at the plates they would be struck dead and yet he seemed to have deep concern about unauthorized people locating the plates. Why would such be a concern if any unauthorized person would be unable to actually steal and make use of the plates?(SOURCE)
30.) Moroni imposed (JSH 1:34) that the plates were gold in material. This imposition is compounded by Moroni’s concern that Joseph would use the plates for Financial gain. The specific gravity of gold is about 17. A cubic foot of it would weight 17 times the 62 pounds that a cubic foot of water weighs- or about 1054 pounds. Half a cubic foot would weigh more than 500 pounds, more than most grand pianos. A Weight impossible to carry.(SOURCE, SOURCE vs 34) Apologists dismiss this issue by suggesting the Gold plates weren’t gold but such ignores the two impositions together at the beginning of this point.
31.) That the entire human race began with two people in Jackson County Missouri. This being the location where our species began, 6000 years ago. That there was no death before the fall of Adam, and that that event occurred a mere 6,000 years ago. (SOURCE & SOURCE)
32.) All of the men set apart as “prophets, seers and revelators” at that given time were fooled by a con artist (Mark Hoffman) who sold them forged documents, and said leaders even tried to defend the forged documents as authentic. The same men were also unable to foresee the con artist’s murder plot.(SOURCE)
33.) 2000 young men (stripling warriors) went to battle against a larger more experienced army. Not a single stripling warrior died. In fact they suffered wounds so severe that they fainted from blood loss and yet not a single one died from the wound nor from infection despite no antibiotics or disinfectant. Does not a single loss of life sound even remotely rational. The stripling warriors would need to be the Avengers with magic super powers to have accomplished this (SOURCE). Imagine a battle where 2000 soldiers fights a larger force and not one single person on the smaller side dies. Does that make sense in the natural world that we live in?
34.) That Modern Prophets from the inception of the Church have pointed to all Native Americans as well as Polynesians and Mexicans and other “tan Skinned” islanders as descendants of the Lamanites and yet modern geneticists agree that 98% of Native Americans have no Israelite DNA and the other 2% of these peoples have Israelite DNA that does not enter from the right time period? (SOURCE).
35.) In lieu of 34, to note the Book of Mormon was written specifically to the Lamanites. But with no ability to distinguish a Lamanite Native American from a non-Lamanite Native American, Mormonism is no longer able to pinpoint its specific audience and hence has abandoned it mission to share the Book of Mormon with the Lamanites specifically nor can they bring the Lamanites to a remembrance of their fathers. Native Americans were hardly attracted to Mormonism anyway. And so with all of that, the Book of Mormons self designated purpose seems thwarted. (Source, Source, Source)
36.) That we are to trust and be confident in Modern Prophets teachings that God condemns homosexual behavior while also recognizing how deeply inconsistent and contradictory Modern leaders have been on explaining why God condemns Homosexual behavior. Its almost as if they are winging it. (SOURCE)
37.) That ultimate truth and sacred principles are taught in the temple ceremony, a Ceremony that was revealed by God and said to be unalterable. In spite of said ceremony having been changed multiple times over the years. Additionally, that God’s revealed latter day temple ceremony just happened to be overwhelmingly similar to pre-existing Masonic ceremonies already in practice (Another Plagiarism). And Experts agree that Masonry does not go back further than the 15th century. Changes include Women no longer covenant to obey their husbands in the temple, no more covenant to avoid loud laughter, and the penalties and death oaths have been partially removed to obscure their meaning. Initiatories completely changed, endowment has gone through many wording, covenant and character changes, the language of sealings changed in recent years, in an attempt to be more gender neutral. BUT the ordinances NEVER change and are inspired and eternal and consistent, and people are still saved by the same standard. (SOURCE)
38.) Much of the Social Change in the Church seems to come about due to apostate voices. Those voices are excommunicated and at the same time many of the changes called for by their platforms are adopted and implemented with the Church calling them revelation. Sam Young asked for a better approach to interviewing children, he was excommunicated and the Church implements a partial change. Kate Kelly and Ordain Women asked for a larger role for women and less sexism, she was excommunicated and the Church implements a partial changes and calls them revelation. John Dehlin and Bill Reel asks for more historical transparency and honesty, they are excommunicated and the Church implements a partial change and claims they have always been honest and transparent. The November 2015 policy is revoked after critics raised awareness of its harm. The Church admitted to deceptive and dishonest investment strategies after whistleblower critics exposed the dishonesty. It seems as though Church policies and practices are heavily influenced by apostate voices out in the lost and fallen world. (SOURCE)
39.) The Church’s leaders claim the Church is experiencing incredible growth at times when the data points to a deep decline in growth and the loss in active and total numbers especially in the Youth is acknowledged by the Church’s own believers who have access to the data. (SOURCE, SOURCE)
40.) While we teach in principle that good behavior and repentance and faith is what makes us worthy of the Celestial Kingdom, The temple teaches us that it is remembering secret handshakes, certain signs and tokens, and certain phrases are what permits us to pass the Sentinels into the Celestial Kingdom.(SOURCE)
41.) Modern Prophets assure us that local leaders have the spirit of discernment and yet a multitude of Pedophiles, scam artists, and other kinds of serious abusers have been called into the callings of Bishop and Stake President at an alarming rate. This brings into deep concern issues of trust as Leaders impose that God makes no mistakes in who he calls. (SOURCE)
42.) In spite of claims that males hold God’s Priesthood and are capable of healing, modern prophets seem unwilling to spend time in SLC’s Children’s hospital. No one has observed children walking out healed from cancer after blessings and no recorded instance is on record of a verifiable limb being restored. Priesthood power seems relatively non verifiable and unobservable. Also Utah’s health statistics are better in some areas and worse in others and seem to be in the range of normal. Even leaders seem to acknowledge such in their General conference talks where everyone who is terminally sick dies and “faith not to be healed” is the greater faith. Because half the population of Utah is LDS we should expect a significant impact from Priesthood power but such doesn’t seem to occur. On top of that Utah leads or is near the top in terms of high depression, high suicide rates, and high amounts of sex abuse. (SOURCE)
43.) If the Melchizedek priesthood was used as the name of the most high priesthood in order to prevent the overuse of the name of the Savior. Then why Modern Leaders insist that we use the full name of the church and not Mormon. Are we not over using the Savior’s name by requiring such? That Gordon B Hinckley would teach we should use the word Mormon and it should mean “More Good” and President Nelson teaching that using the name Mormon offends God and is a victory of Satan. Who created the “I am a Mormon campaign”? Who created the Mormon Channel? Who created Mormon.org? (SOURCE)
44.) The claim we are a living Church where prophets who talk to God are present and yet no new scripture for 30+ years and essentially no major revelation for over 100 years. (SOURCE)
45.) That God who created our world really had no idea about astronomy when comparing the kingdoms of glory to the sun, the moon, and the stars. The moon is just reflected light and has no illumination of its own. And the combined brightness of the stars would far exceed the brightness of the single sun in our solar system. In other words God in this case as with many others seems to teach the current understanding of prophets which so happens to also be false information with little evidence that he teaches truth beyond what his modern leaders would already know from their present world. (SOURCE)
46.) A second hand source stated that Joseph Smith said people live on the Sun. And we have a first hand account of Brigham Young teaching that Men lived on the Moon. (SOURCE)
47.) That God lives on a planet near a star named Kolob. (SOURCE)
48.) That three men (The three Nephites) walk the earth having not tasted of death and are busy about building the kingdom of God up to the present moment. (SOURCE)
49.) That a highly literate, advanced civilization with agriculture, advanced weaponry, coinage, and large scale building projects, with a population numbering in the millions, vanished without a trace less than 2000 years ago, supposedly from an area where we have archeological evidence of other (non-BOM-related) civilizations dating back tens of thousands of years. (SOURCE)
50.) That in spite of the drumlin hill in New York being “The Hill Cumorah” (Also the same hill as the Jaredite Hill Ramah) where proposedly battles consisting of millions fighting with swords died, there are no skeletal remains in the hill. Apologists propose a solution of moving the hill to Central/South America which then adds long unreasonable distances to the travels of Moroni, the Book of Mormon’s final author (Between Central/South America, Manti Utah, and Palmyra NY thereby adding conjecture and creating new problems. (SOURCE, SOURCE)
51.) That while Joseph Smith had the supernatural ability to use a Seer Stone to find lost items and to discern God’s mind and will and to translate the Book of Mormon, he seemingly couldn’t use it to locate the lost 116 pages. It seems irrational that the 116 pages weren’t retranslated, according to Joseph’s reasoning. If he retranslated the 116 pages and the old ones re-emerged and matched, it would have proven he was a prophet. If the original 116 pages re-emerged and was in a different handwriting or had edits that showed the only changes in a different handwriting then it would demonstrate those who had it had in fact altered it which would not have damaged the prophet’s credibility. It seems there is no faithful presentation of events that is helped by Joseph Smith’s imposed reasoning. The only reason not to retranslate the original 116 pages that makes rational sense is that Joseph knew it would come out differently from his own mind and hence very different from the original 116 pages, and thereby discredit him in the eyes of Martin Harris and others who could compare the two versions side by side. (SOURCE)
53.) While God and Nephites had prepared and set aside an instrument to translate the plates (The Nephite Spectacles AKA Urim and Thummim), Joseph chooses to cease using the Nephite Spectacles and instead uses a seer stone placed into a hat whereby he would bury his face and exclude all light. An instrument he used to pretend to see fictional treasure in order to be hired and paid for the act of treasure digging. (SOURCE)
54.) That magical special feelings are anything more than regular chemical reactions like all the rest of the feelings you experience. Hunger? That’s a chemical reaction. Surprise? That’s a chemical reaction. A warm toasty feeling in your heart? That’s God. In spite of scientists knowing that this feeling is natural and the body and mind can be tricked into feeling it. It is called “Elevation Emotion” Elevation Emotion is an emotion elicited by witnessing actual or imagined virtuous acts of remarkable moral goodness. It is experienced as a distinct feeling of warmth and expansion accompanied by appreciation and affection for the individual whose exceptional conduct is being observed. In other Words Mormonism took a natural things that all humans feel that people can be manipulated into experiencing and redefined it as the ultimate means by which someone can know truth. (SOURCE)
55.) How about the curse of Cain continuing through Ham? If Ham was white then his wife needed to be Black. Their offspring would only be 50/50 and it can be assumed the darker complexion offspring would continue to diminish since all the other incestuous family and offspring were white, right? Because if the flood was real there should no longer be any distinguishing ultra dark-skinned peoples. Correct? As there were only 8 souls saved and 7 of them were Caucasian. Also Note that this Doctrine was held in mainstream Christianity and was not uniquely Mormon. (SOURCE)
56.) That Joseph Smith, with his own treasure-seeking history and that of his family’s history of treasure seeking, money digging, and mysticism, having had no success at all at finding buried treasure, charged in court on at least two occasions of fraud, and being a disorderly person, miraculously discovers the burial place of ancient gold plates (Another buried treasure) protected by another guardian spirit, then translates said plates by means of placing a rock (which he found while treasure-digging) in a hat and reading what was presented on said rock. In Other Words, how likely is the coincidence that on one hand Joseph spends his late Childhood and early adulthood pretending to see Gold treasures buried in hills that he claims are protected by Guardian Spirits using a seer stone to find them only to later dig up an actual Gold treasure, buried in a hill, protected by a guardian spirt and uses the same seer stone to translate that treasure? (SOURCE)
57.) According to the Book of Mormon, a group of people called the Jaredites left the Old World after the confounding of languages at the Tower of Babel and traveled to the Americas. The book states that they arrived in the Americas around 2,500 BCE and were the first to inhabit the land. However, the Tower of Babel story, as described in the Bible, is widely believed by scholars to be a myth or a fable rather than a historical event. There is no evidence to suggest that there was ever a worldwide language confusion, and linguists have shown that the world’s languages evolved gradually over time. Therefore, if the Tower of Babel story is not historically accurate, it calls into question the historicity of the Book of Mormon’s claims about the Jaredites’ migration to the Americas. If the Jaredites did not leave the Old World after the confounding of languages at the Tower of Babel, then their arrival in the Americas becomes a problematic issue for the Book of Mormon’s historicity. In conclusion, the story of the Tower of Babel presents a significant challenge to the historicity of the Book of Mormon. The lack of historical evidence for the events described in the Bible raises serious questions about the accuracy of the Jaredites’ migration to the Americas, as described in the Book of Mormon. (SOURCE)
58.) While Mormonism claims to have prophets who speak to God, there is essentially no idea or information put forth that seems to fit the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator titles. Firstly, many of the predictions made by LDS prophets have failed to come true. For example, in 1891, the then-LDS Church President Wilford Woodruff declared that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ would occur before the end of the 19th century. Obviously, this did not happen, leading some to question the validity of Woodruff’s prophetic claims. Secondly, many of the teachings and doctrines of the LDS Church have changed over time. For example, in the 19th century, the Church taught that black people were cursed and could not hold the priesthood. However, this policy was changed in 1978, suggesting that the Church’s leaders do not have access to any kind of unchanging, divine truth. Thirdly, the LDS Church’s leadership is heavily influenced by its cultural and societal context. For example, the Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage is seen as being more about conservative social and political views than divine revelation. This suggests that the Church’s leaders are not receiving direct revelations from God, but rather are simply reflecting the views of their surrounding culture. Fourthly, that the LDS Church’s leadership has a history of making statements that are later disavowed or contradicted. For example, in the early 20th century, Church leaders taught that the Book of Mormon was a historical record of the ancient Americas. However, in recent years, the Church has taken a more nuanced view of the Book of Mormon’s historicity, suggesting that its leaders may not have received direct revelation on the matter. And Lastly they top Church Leaders have compromised their integrity to the point it would be difficult to reconcile how they have maintained the companionship of the Holy Ghost and the ability to receive revelation. (SOURCE)
59.) That God would have Joseph Smith manipulate vulnerable young girls into sex and marriage often giving them deadlines and imposing consequences in harsh language that can easily be seen as eternal damnation for saying no. This includes Joseph approaching multiple young girls after inviting them to work or live in his home. (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE)
60.) That Native American ancestor’s skins were darkened as a sign of a curse so they would be undesirable and the righteous wouldn’t “mix” with them in spite of our modern awareness of how skin pigment works and when such colorations roughly occurred in the human genome imposing indigenous people were darker skinned to begin with rather than such being a curse that developed later. (official manuals and 2 Nephi chapter 5 continue to teach such doctrines regardless of what apologists say). (SOURCE)
61.) In addition to the item above, one must believe that such a curse of skin color will be reversed by God as a direct result of accepting the gospel – in accordance with one’s righteousness. See Spencer W Kimball’s 1960 General Conference address. That Skin color among a collective tribe can just come and go based on curses being placed and lifted by God is completely contrary to how the world works. (SOURCE)
62.) Scriptural prophets generally go out and preach to groups of people who don’t believe in their teachings or may outright hate the prophet or group of believers. They put their lives in danger and face criticism to their arguments. Modern prophets tend to only preach to believers and tend to stay out of spaces where people could test their statements and teachings against logic in real time. They travel around the world to wards and stakes that welcome them with open arms. They tend not to have to face criticism while lawyers, the PR department, and unofficial apologists tend to deal with most of the criticism. When Church leaders take the chance in open forum they often get caught lying or obfuscating the truth (SOURCE)
63.) That in 1886 Jesus told John Taylor that polygamy could never be taken off the earth regardless of what pressures arise only to have Wilford Woodruff in 1890 when pressures arise claiming Jesus wants the Church to end polygamy. (SOURCE)
64.) That Wilford Woodruff in 1890 would claim a revelation effectively ending polygamy, only to privately be instructing a small number of saints claiming revelation that they are to continue polygamy at all costs. (SOURCE)
65.) Scriptural prophets generally gave up all their worldly wealth to preach the gospel. They often come from humble circumstances, but if they didn’t they may have given up their wealth when they go to preach. Modern prophets get paid a significant salary of at least $120k USD a year as of 2013 (along with other substantial financial benefits such as free cars, health coverage, free travel, and free education for offspring). Most modern day prophets come from wealthy families, and most modern day prophets themselves are fairly well-to-do. And much of Church leadership appears to be the product of nepotism. None of them sacrifice financial wealth in order to preach the Gospel. (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE)
66.) Scriptural prophets sometimes prophesy of future events. When they speak directly with God they tell the public that God spoke directly with them and that they are delivering God’s message to them. Modern prophets don’t seem to ever prophesy of future events as they seem to lack entirely that ability. They sometimes hint that they speak with God but it is difficult to say for sure. Virtually any stories of them seeing God come from third party accounts. One is never certain if the message they are delivering came from God or is their own opinion based on their reading of scripture. (SOURCE)
67.) Modern prophets stating the way out of poverty is paying more tithing. Logically that is completely contrary to anything rational. If true Mormons would be the most wealthy people on the planet. And Bishops storehouses would only be minimally needed. A people collectively exiting poverty by paying tithing is irrational. (SOURCE)
68.) Teaching members to pay tithing even before buying food to feed your children (SOURCE)
69.) Numerous anachronisms have been identified in the Book of Mormon that suggest it was actually written by a 19th century author. Some of the major anachronisms in the Book of Mormon are as follows. Horses – The Book of Mormon describes the use of horses in ancient America, including their use in warfare. However, horses were not introduced to the Americas until the Spanish conquistadors arrived in the 16th century. Steel – The Book of Mormon describes the use of steel swords and other metal weapons by ancient American peoples, but there is no archaeological evidence of steel production in pre-Columbian America. Wheeled vehicles – The Book of Mormon mentions the use of wheeled vehicles, including chariots, in ancient America. However, there is no evidence of wheeled vehicles being used in the Americas before the arrival of Europeans. Silk – The Book of Mormon describes the use of silk clothing in ancient America, but silk production was not introduced to the Americas until the 16th century. Barley and wheat – The Book of Mormon mentions the cultivation of barley and wheat by ancient American peoples, but there is no evidence of these crops being grown in the Americas before the arrival of Europeans. Domesticated animals – The Book of Mormon describes the domestication of animals, including cows, pigs, and chickens, by ancient American peoples. However, there is no archaeological evidence of these animals being present in pre-Columbian America. Language and writing – The Book of Mormon claims that the ancient American peoples had a written language and used a system of writing on golden plates. However, there is no evidence of any such system of writing in pre-Columbian America, and linguists have been unable to identify any language related to the Book of Mormon’s purported language, Reformed Egyptian. On top of these we also have what is missing but should be present. This includes any animals or crops that the Jaredites or Nephites brought from the old world with them that we are told flourished once they got here. (SOURCE)
70.) God seemingly felt it was more important for his people to avoid coffee and tea then to warn them about boiling water or washing hands to prevent infection. And God seemingly is unconcerned with many other things his people partake of that do deeper harm to the body such soda drinks. The Word of Wisdom that seemed to descend from Heaven and promise health and vigor to all who lived it. The WoW taught Mormons a century in advance to avoid tobacco. Except that contemporary sources such as Sylvester Graham’s health code of the day taught an almost identical health code. He advocated eating lots of fruits and vegetables, little to no meat, no coffee, tea, liquor or tobacco. Whole wheat to make homemade bread, no ground up flour from the local mill. Does it not make more sense that Joseph simply plagiarized from his milieu? (SOURCE)
71.) God told the prophet that we shouldn’t drink hot drinks, so we don’t drink coffee or tea, but we do drink hot chocolate, because one of the brothers of the prophet once clarified that “hot drinks” means coffee and tea, and so we also can’t drink iced tea or iced coffee, because they’re coffee and tea, which are “hot drinks”. Why is God so confusing and illogical?
72.) The While Joseph Smith taught that a patriarch in the modern Church was the same office as Evangelist in the Ancient Church, all evidence points to these being two very different things. That we claim to have restored the structure Christ instituted with our corresponding 12 apostles, but then don’t acknowledge that the First Presidency doesn’t fit with that structure. (SOURCE)
73.) Joseph Smith reported receiving priesthood keys from both Elias and Elijah. When in fact Scholars agree they are simply two different names for the same person. The naming convention here differing in the new versus old testament. (SOURCE)
74.) While Brigham Young adamantly taught the Doctrine that Adam was Heavenly Father, more recent leaders have denounced President Young’s teaching casting doubt on how we know when to trust the teaching of prophets (Brigham Young clearly taught he knew this teaching was true because it came via revelation and that many of the Saints knew it was true by revelation) (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE)
75.) While claiming to speak to God directly, Modern leaders lean heavily on surveys and pilot programs when seemingly God could just tell them what will and wont work and what the needs of his children are. In conjunction Modern prophets often point to the world as lost and fallen and yet seemingly move in the same direction as the world on social issues other than they often lag 30-60 years behind.
76.) Modern Prophets in the past teaching that those of color were less valiant in the pre-earth life as Doctrine going so far as to place it in official letters only to have later leaders disavow said teachings as disavowed theories. Again deeply challenging trust in them as having ability to discern truth from error. (SOURCE, SOURCE, SOURCE)
77.) That the LDS church is the purveyor of God’s moral laws on what is proper marriage, with their sordid history of polygamy, polyandry, young brides, and rampant sexual abuse.
78.) God harvests “intelligences” from outer space, turns them into spirits and then sends them to earth, removing all memories of him and allows millions of faith choices with them seeming unreasonable or no more reasonable than any other. And allows Mormonism his One true Faith to have the appearance of a fraud.
79.) God designs only one true religion and chooses a man with fairly questionable morality (treasure digging, hiding female relationships from his wife, and having relationships with intimate dynamics with children).
80.) Only a tiny percentage of the world’s population joins this religion (around 2/10ths of a percent or .02%, and an even smaller portion remain faithful and active to achieve the necessary requirements to return to God. That God’s one true church in the last days would have less than .2% of the world’s population as members and likely less than .06% who are active members.
81.) This religion requires complete devotion and control, even down to number earrings, underwear selection, dietary restrictions, loudness of laughing, etc…
82.) When followers leave this religion, family members are perplexed and devastated and taught on multiple layers to see their loved one as broken, as having insincere reasons for leaving, and as apostates not to be trusted.
83.) That Joseph’s seer stone has been in the possession of the church for all these years, yet none of the subsequent prophets, seers, or revelators have figured out how to make it work or sought one of their own. Strangely, significantly less revelation has happened with all the prophets not using a seer stone than those claimed by the man who did use one.
84.) We’ve gone from Brigham Young saying that an interracial couple should be killed on sight, to having interracial couples pictured in the Ensign. Again how do we know when prophets are right? Or wrong? If both the prophet and his followers struggle to discern truth at any given time?
85.) Brigham Young University with multiple Apostles and Prophets sitting on its board and a future Apostle as its president, condoned and permitted Electric Shock Therapy as a possible treatment for “curing” Homosexuality. Today the Church condemns such as not healthy or viable or effective (SOURCE)
86.) Spencer Kimballs’s First Presidentcy sent a official letter out in 1982 condemning Oral Sex only to retract it a short time later after an uproar of negative feedback. (SOURCE)
87.) Must confront Earlier prophets stating that the physically and mentally handicapped were less valiant in the premortal life only to slowly move to those folks being the most valiant in the pre-earth life again challenging how we can trust these men to discern truth on our behalf. (SOURCE)
88.) That Alma seemingly knows exactly how Abinidi’s conversation with the King goes during the space of time he had been kicked out and chased off and not present for the words of Abinadi
89.) With the story of Moses in the Old Testament, Mormon prophets taught as doctrine that God sent His destroying angel to murder the firstborn children as a means to soften the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would let the Israelite people go free (churchofjesuschrist). And the prophets confirmed such many times in General Conference. God is supposed to love everyone equally, yet here he murders innocent firstborn children. The doctrine is that man will be punished for his own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. This is yet another contradiction. This story never occurred. It is a myth. (LDS.org: Moses).
90.) That Adam and Eve were literal historical figures around 6000 years ago and that they are the common ancestors of all of humanity. In spite of our knowledge that various humans have been around for millions of years. And Homo-Sapiens for at least 100,000 to 200,000 years.
91.) Mormon prophets claimed that God regretted creating mankind and thus chose to flood the entire earth (Noah story) and murder all humanity and all animals. While apologists make space for a local small scale flood, Modern prophets have taught a literal Global Flood that covered the whole earth in which the Earth was baptized. All scientific evidence says that a full flood is not possible, yet church says you need to be believe in a total-earth-encompassing flood (See Reasons why a Global Flood is absurd)
92.) The juxtaposition of Christ in the old world on the cross asking his father to forgive the soldiers that were torturing him saying ‘Father, forgive them they no not what they do” Then he assured the criminals on each side of him that he would see them in paradise that day, but then in the New World, Christ goes on a killing rampage burning some cities, sinking others, lots and lots of men, women and children are murdered by Christ destroying the landscape with earthquakes and fires. On top of that Mormon Jesus then brags about it in the Book of Mormon to those still left.
93.) Joseph stated that Moroni instructed him to bring Alvin with him in order to retrieve the plates. Over the course of the next year Alvin dies. Seemingly pointing to Moroni being unaware of how such would unfold. And it begs the question, is it not logical to assume God himself instructed Moroni to instruct Joseph of the needed requirement to bring Alvin? (SOURCE)
94.) God stating that having multiple wives/polygamy is an abomination before Him and that He will not suffer this people to practice it, etc. (LDS.org: D&C 98) (LDS.org 2 N 5:21); then later, His prophets proclaiming contradictory statements that are to be accepted as His doctrine. Brigham Young said, “Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).
95.) God threatening to destroy Emma in the D&C: “And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law [polygamy]. And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things [polygamy], then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law [polygamy]” (D&C 132:54)
96.) The missionary, Ammon, killing those who scattered the flocks and cutting off many of the arms of others. Ammon had been unrighteous, persecuting the members of the church (we don’t know the exact details), and he was rebuked by an angel and allowed to repent, but the robbers who stole King Lamani’s sheep were not treated with a comparable mercy. Ammon was not defending his life from them because the Lord promised his father Mosiah that his sons’ lives would be protected during their missions. So why was he so cruel? And why is he seen as such a great missionary when he seriously harmed those men? And a prophet running around against a significant number of men cutting off their arms is also on its own far-fetched.
97.) God cursing all those who mix with those who have the dark skin curse (2 Nephi 5:23), (Alma 3:8) Wilford Woodruff said that the mixed children should be killed too. (http://www.mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm)
98.) God cursing Cain, the Lamanites, and their posterities and others with dark skin: “And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.” (2 Nephi 5:21)
99.) The witnesses were highly gullible people, practicing “second sight,” using divining rods, finding treasure by placing a rock in a hat, etc. The three witnesses have serious credibility issues. Their gullibility is illustrated by an incident in July 1837. Joseph Smith had left on a five-week missionary tour to Canada, only to find on his return that all three of the Witnesses had joined a faction opposing him. This faction rallied around a young girl who claimed to be a seeress by virtue of a black stone in which she read the future. David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery all pledged her their loyalty, and Frederick G. Williams, formerly Joseph’s First Counselor, became her scribe. The girl seeress would dance herself into a state of exhaustion, fall to the floor, and burst forth with revelations. (Lucy Smith: Biographical Sketches, pp. 211-213).
100.) Martin Harris said: “I never saw the gold plates, only in a visionary or entranced state.” (Ref: “Origin and History of the Mormonites,” (The Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science, and Art, late 1850)
101.) Joseph Smith taught: “[A]s the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene… while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite.” (Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 3, p. 380+) “[JosephSmith taught] that the Gentile blood was actually cleansed out of their veins, and the blood of Jacob made to circulate in them; and the revolution and change in the system were so great that it caused the beholder to think they were going into fits.” (Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 269). This understood literally is absurd.
102.) Temple patrons previously promised that if they were ever to reveal the tokens/gestures of the ceremony, they would be subject to the following:
Stage 1 : “my throat … be cut from ear to ear, and my tongue torn out by its roots.”
Stage 2 : “our breasts … be torn open, our hearts and vitals torn out and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field.”
Stage 3 : “our body … be cut asunder and all your bowels gush out.”
The vocalization of these specific methods of death was removed between 1921 and 1927. The endowment also included an oath of vengeance which stated:“You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.”
These, and many other things, have all been removed from the endowment. See a greater list of endowment changes here: (LDS Endowment). This contradicts what Joseph Smith proclaimed:
“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed…. He set the temple ordinances to be the same forever and ever and set Adam to watch over them, to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 4, p. 208 ) (Intro to Family History Student Manual) (emphasis added).
What God requires such of early members and seems to essentially do away with it for later members?
103.) That murdering Laban was the ONLY possible way to get the plates. Which god wanted the Nephites to have and use. God couldn’t figure out any other way whereby Nephi didn’t have to commit the greatest sin. We all are left having to tell ourselves that yeah, I guess sometimes God is ok with murder, as long as he tells you to. It isn’t difficult to think he can figure out a way to accomplish what he needs without having to do something universally morally wrong. Especially in light of the fact that Joseph Smith didn’t even need the plates to translate which means the Nephites didn’t need them either. They essentially always were covered or not even in the room for the translation correct? Could God have given the Nephites the brass plates via the same mode, hence not really needing them?
104.) See #3 — The Jaredites had sufficient food and fresh water to survive with their livestock and bees for a YEAR. 2000 calories per person *365 = 730,000 per person. For a year ..e.g. roughly 560 lbs of beef jerky per person. Plus 262 gallons of water per person. None of this accounts for what the animals would have required for sustenance.
105.) That God cursed the waters in the latter-days and Satan controls them. This is commonly offered as the reason why missionaries aren’t allowed to go swimming (see D&C 61)
106.) In the 1981 Guidebook titled, Homosexuality, it is taught that early masturbation could lead to homosexuality. Found in section 1, An overview of Homosexuality, subsection B., #4 Early Homosexual Experience. (The whole guidebook is pretty absurd https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/4/4c/Homosexuality-1981.pdf
107.) Modern Prophets on several occasions have taught that April 6 is Christ’s real birthday (based on a misreading of John Whitmers Scribal entry for D&C 20:1) (LDS Living itself concludes based on the best scholarship that it’s not). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2014/05/sunday-morning-session/bear-up-their-burdens-with-ease?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR13cS8rGWPAjK6ekMajGsc_S0AtBP-AbMo5YPlKZ76TW0Inrt7ji1lkTio
108.) In the temple film premortal Peter, James, and John gave handshake tokens to Adam and Eve in the garden, but Joseph Smith said an un-resurrected spirit will not shake your hand.
109.) Based on logic, if the LDS plan of salvation is thought through, it appears that more people will be exalted by dying before the age of eight than will accept the Gospel while on earth.
110.) That the Book or Mormon, supposedly written and abridged centuries before the King James version of the bible was translated, had many of the precise translation, interpolation, and anachronistic errors that the King James version of the bible had.
111.) When Lehi and Co. were lost in the wilderness, instead of guiding them by revelation using a still small voice to His prophet, God went and Secret Santa’d to them a magical, brass, ball-shaped compass. But this compass didn’t use magnetic poles, the sun in the sky, or the stars. It pointed the way when there was enough faith wafting through the air to power its spindles. This Liahona was said to have been found in the same box as the gold plates yet no one ever saw it. . It’s not known why God didn’t just use the Liahona to provide written translations and instructions to Smith and instead allowed Joseph to use his treasure digging peepstone. Also Noting how similar the Liahona was to 19th Century stage coach candle warmer.
112.) Masturbation is deemed wrong in spite of 99% of males young men along with much of the primate family drawn to the behavior naturally. (as well as Cetaceans, Elephants, Walrus, Rodents, Bats, Lizards, and Turtles and other species). Humans didn’t invent masturbation. We get the urge because our ancestors did too, even back to the earliest mammals and reptiles. It’s likely that as soon as animals evolved brain circuitry that made stimulating sexual organs rewarding, individuals started taking the opportunity to reward themselves. The art of self-pleasure has been observed in males from about 80 species. Walrusses even porform felatio on themselves. Once you get that behavior doesn’t originate from an invisible being named Satan and instead is part of hundreds of thousands of years of Evolution, our stances of a behavior as evil or Sin becomes ridiculous.
113.) Satan and how he operates within the LDS gospel plan is illogical. He could thwart the plan simply by ceasing his participation. He somehow is believed to be cunning and yet unable to connect the dots on better ways to ruin God’s work. And if that is reconciled by stating that Satan is unnecessary (If he ceased there would still be opposition) then one need not believe in him anyway as at any moment he could have stepped away and opposition is still exiting anyway. (SOURCE)
114.) Homosexuality is deemed wrong in spite of 500 species having Homosexuality within their behaviors. We also know that Homosexuality is epigenetic meaning there are genetic factors showing Homosexuality is linked to human development. For example certain types of finger length have a significant increase in the rate of Homosexuality as well as birth order. Humans didn’t invent Homosexuality. Once you grasp that the behavior doesn’t originate from an invisible being named Satan and instead is part of hundreds of thousands of years of Evolution, our stances of a behavior as evil or Sin becomes ridiculous.
115.) There is an ordinance that only a select few members receive called the Second Anointing. This ordinance is what many leaders have referred to getting you “calling and election made sure”. This is believed to guarantee you Celestial Kingdom rather than the endowment and intiatories and sealing promising you the Celestial Kingdom based on your faithfulness. In other words those who have received the Second Anointing have made it. You would think to get this ordinance that the Holy Ghost or Jesus would speak to leaders and tell them who the righteous are. But that isn’t how it works. Those who receive the ordinance were referred to receive it from others who had received it before them, and they in turn then recommend others. So rather than some spiritual revelation given to determine who is righteous and who is not, it is simply a religious MLM Country Club where all what counts is who you know. (SOURCE)
116.) Leaders portrayed forever that this was a lay unpaid volunteer ministry and seemingly forgot to inform membership that the top leaders get a 6 figure salary with lots of other additional perks (free health insurance, free car, gifted homes and property, free education for their posterity, free airfare, free lodging, an communal escrow account and debit card to use against it ) and a believed lump sum of a Million Dollars on the front end. (SOURCE)
117.) Modern Prophets who have claimed to know Jesus and who approve the Church artwork depicting Jesus have always favored a bearded, long haired, Caucasian European Jesus. This is almost assuredly not what a person in Jesus’ culture would have looked like in that time period in the Palestine area and in the Jewish culture. In fact his name also wouldn’t be Jesus. He was named Yeshua Bar Yosef. The Yeshua translated into English is Joshua. But when you run it through a greek translation first and then English it becomes Jesus. Surely Prophets who speak to him would know that. Also his last name isn’t Christ.
119.) Wilford woodruff sees a vision of the founding fathers chastising him for not having performed their ordinances. (SOURCE)
120.) While the LDS Church claims to “believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes.” Think about that logically. First there is no population of of a Jewish tribe living in some remote undiscovered place as many modern leaders taught in the past. And in our modern world this idea is illogical. On top of that only .2% of the human population is Mormon and that % is decreasing in our modern world. We barely gathering in anyone not mention a lost and scattered tribe of Israel that exists in some location we don’t know about. Or to gather in folks mixed into the general population in some unique mystical way. (SOURCE)
121.) You must accept that the word Mormon in the Book of Mormon is half English and half Egyptian. “I may safely say that the word Mormon stands independent of the learning and wisdom of this generation. – Before I give a definition, however, to the word, let me say that the Bible in its widest sense, means good; for the Savior says according to the gospel of John, ‘I am the good shepherd;’ and it will not be beyond the common use of terms, to say that good is among the most important in use, and though known by various names in different languages, still its meaning is the same, and is ever in opposition to bad. We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, god; the Goth, goda; the German, gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contraction, mor, we have the word MORMON; which means, literally, more good.” – Joseph Smith, Jr., Times and Seasons – Volume 4 , no. 13. (Nauvoo, IL: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 15 May 1843), 194. “Thus Joseph Smith maintained that the word ‘Mormon’ was part English (Mor) and part Egyptian (Mon). According to Dr. William F. Albright there is no word resembling ‘mon’ in Egyptian meaning ‘good.’ Even if there were, however, it would leave unexplained how an Egyptian word managed to be combined with an English word hundreds of years before there was a written language. Nor would it explain how such a name could appear in use on the American continent by approximately 150 B.C.” – Wesley Walters, The Use of the Old Testament in the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City, UT: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1981), 24. (SOURCE)
122.) Joseph Smith taught ““I may safely say that the word Mormon stands independent of the learning and wisdom of this generation. – Before I give a definition, however, to the word, let me say that the Bible in its widest sense, means good; for the Savior says according to the gospel of John, ‘I am the good shepherd;’ and it will not be beyond the common use of terms, to say that good is among the most important in use, and though known by various names in different languages, still its meaning is the same, and is ever in opposition to bad. We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, god; the Goth, goda; the German, gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contraction, mor, we have the word MORMON; which means, literally, more good.”” and yet Gordon B Hinckley said “I knew, of course, that “more good” was not a derivative of the word Mormon. I had studied both Latin and Greek, and I knew that English is derived in some measure from those two languages and that the words more good are not a cognate of the word Mormon.” – Gordon B Hinckley – Mormon Should Mean “More Good” October 1990 General Conference”
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